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You need a strong constitution (to post here)

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Does The United Kingdom Need a Written Constitution & Bill of Rights
Yes
100%
 100%  [ 8 ]
No
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 8

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davidje
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Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 1519
Location: Plymouth (Devon)

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:54 pm    Post subject:
British Constitution Explained
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een trawling the Internet, wonderful tools computers and communications !

Came up with this as the best description :

The British Constitution comes from a variety of sources. The main ones are:
Statutes such as the Magna Carta of 1215 and the Act of Settlement of 1701.
Laws and Customs of Parliament; political conventions
Case law; constitutional matters decided in a court of law
Constitutional experts who have written on the subject such as Walter Bagehot and A.V Dicey.
Go to source: ::The British Constitution::

Smile

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Visit : Devon, An Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty and Superb Beaches.
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Bruce



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 4059

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject:
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here lies the problem, a whole plethora of documents some contradicting others, royal acts and acts of parliament. here is the problem. If there was a written constitution with clearly laid down principles each new law or act could be compared against the constitution to make sure it satisfied the basic principles. where it contradicted these principles then the act must be studied to see if the constitution requires amendment because of a change in circumstances.

since there is no comprehensive document new acts can erode freedoms or dramatically change circumstances. For instance the 2006 Terrorism act contains legislation which erodes basic freedoms in the light of terrorist activity. No test of this was done and none was required since we do not apply any new acts to a constitution. All the european legislation can be nodded through even though it might contravene anything in the act of union the act of settlement and even the magna carta. the parliament can obtain acts without any reference to previous acts.

Students of the constitution can raise cases in court but they have no power as each new act supercedes all before. The court has to take the most recent legislation as the case and there is nothing official before that to refer to as an alternative.

There is a great deal of misunderstanding of the act of settlement and the subsequent act of union which generally arose out of it and magna carta. The position of habeas corpus is also not always appreciated and recent attempts to extend detention have to be viewed against that. It does however have no real force since parliament can introducea bill of detention of whatever length it wants.

Since there is no written agreed official constitution the British parliament has more power to alter law than most others.
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Mike S



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
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Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:32 pm    Post subject:
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here are you coming from, Bruce?

hat is your underlying, personal drive; philosophy?
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Archie White



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:32 am    Post subject:
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ike

Essentially, he's a troublemaker. Lives in Edinburgh.

Archie
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Archie White



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:49 am    Post subject:
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avid

Pardon my ignorance (and you may have told us already), but what is the flag in your avatar? Has it got a name (like St Dev's Cross)? And what are the constitutional implications, if any?

Archie
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Mo-East Devon



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 1732
Location: East Devon

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject:
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iz the flag of Devon you! And whilst I'm at it on this bright & sunny morn if parliament can change laws so easily why haven't our parliamentarians changed the statutory legislation regarding CT to make it fairer all round??? Rolling Eyes

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davidje
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Joined: 21 Nov 2005
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Location: Plymouth (Devon)

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:20 am    Post subject:
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Archie White wrote:
David

Pardon my ignorance (and you may have told us already), but what is the flag in your avatar? Has it got a name (like St Dev's Cross)? And what are the constitutional implications, if any?

Archie

Mo is correct, Archie, it is the flag of Devon. There are no constitutional implications to this it is a symbolic sign just as Cornwall has a similar flag......

I think if you look into this more deeply every county, city, town in the United Kingdom has its flag and or coat of arms. Plymouth City Council has its own flag and coat of arms as does Devon County Council, Totnes Town Council and so on ....

You could say its some kind of identity symbol that appears to date back (yonks ago !).

Ok, now back to the British Constitution, are we agreed that the UK should have a written one and a bill of rights ?

Cool

Take part in the Poll Now !!

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Bruce



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:21 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
What is your underlying, personal drive; philosophy?
three things, Darwin, Deming and democracy. Unlike all the conspiracy theorists I don't believe governments and corporations conspires against us, they are usually alphas who seek power and with it over generous rewards. I am not a believer in the state but in the individual who lives within a set of democratically agreed rules which allow individual freedom where it does not impinge on other's individual freedom.

Progression depends on individuals not states, all the great achievements start as one or two people coming up with an idea and having the drive to progress it.

Since I believe in meritocracy I cannot accept hereditary monarchy since it is not the best way to choose a ruler. (Look at some of the past examples). This means that the state must elect leaders by competitive principles.

The problem in Britain is that since we don't have a set of rules, bill of rights or written constitution, parliament can pass any bill without a reference point. I also find history very useful as a guide to our present situation but in a changing world things evolve and what might be fine and traditional in the 16 or 18 th century might be totally inappropriate now. keeping traditions but modifying them to modern circumstances is fine. Sticking with outdated principles (like an appointed House of Lords) is not.
Also we must make sure that the state and councils are especially bad at this does not overrule individual rights, use its power to ride roughshod over people and try to act like a totalitarian administration. All appointments are to serve not rule.

Darwin realised that people are individuals and cannot be categorised, Marx and the rest put the state first before the individual.
Most people allow the emotion of jealousy to eat away at them instead of being happy that someone is successful.

Edwards Deming was the systems analyst who rebuilt Japan after the war.

Yes Archie I am a someone who questions systems principles but the only way to progress is to always push the boundaries.

For correct government we need to respect the rules we make (the reason I object to court cases) we change them through the parliamentary process. Any other means can be adopted by the less scrupulous and used to distort the democratic process. ct, the poll tax were both introduced in a hurry because of undemocratic pressure.

Mo the reason ct has not been changed is because it is bringing in money, not bvery efficiently, and most of the MPs are not really aware of the problems.
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Bruce



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:24 am    Post subject:
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Archie White



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:50 pm    Post subject:
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davidje wrote:

Cornwall has a similar flag......

But Cornwall (Kernow) is a Nation. The Cross of St Pirin is up there with the Crosses of St George, St Andrew and St Patrick. (Angela - what happened to the Cross of St David? Or are the Welsh never cross?).

The "wall" in Cornwall is the Saxon word for "foreign". (Corn-wall means "Foreign Kernow") Similarly, Wales means "the foreign land" in Saxon. William Wallace was "Foreign Bill".

Just doing my bit for the Union.

And when I referred to Bruce as a troublemaker, it was, of course, in the Pickwickian sense.

Archie
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